Episode 1: What’s Past is Present

UNHEALED: A Story of Race, Memory, and a Teaching Hospital
Episode 1: What’s Past is Present
Transcript

Opening: Background sounds, car accident, police sirens

Dr. Jeff Baker: Friday, December 1st, 1950. It's a cold, dark night and a 24-year-old army veteran is driving home. He's just finished his first semester at college and he's looking forward to seeing his wife and daughter. And then it all comes to an end. On a remote stretch of highway, he's sideswiped by a huge truck coming from the opposite direction. They collide. His car is demolished and the driver, unconscious, is sent by ambulance to Duke Hospital. He's got a traumatic head injury, but it's the Jim Crow era and Duke's small Black medical ward is full.

So after the doctors decide that he's not a candidate for surgery, he's turned away. Turned away because of his race. He's sent by ambulance once again to Durham's Black Hospital. And there, in the emergency room, he dies. Within minutes of arrival. Alone, without family or friends or anyone who knows who he is.

We want everyone at Duke to remember his name: Maltheus Avery.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: Yes, his name was Maltheus Avery, a name few people at Duke, including us, had heard about until recently. But back in 1950, it was a big deal. This story got newspaper coverage locally, even nationally, particularly in the Black press where they were really attacking this whole system of segregation. It even inspired a civil rights campaign. As hard as it is to believe now looking back, it actually was that big of a deal at its own time. The civil rights campaign was really aimed at addressing segregation in southern hospitals. So it's really incredible to me that I knew nothing about this story until recently. So today we're going to begin to try and rectify that, and to make up for all that lost time. Because this is a story that I think all of us at Duke should know.

Dr. Jeff Baker: Yeah, I agree with you. And I'm going to go so far as to say that I think the Maltheus Avery story is one of the most important stories in Duke Hospital's history that nobody knows about. We're going to try to remedy that in this podcast and we're going to see if we can understand what happened to him on that dark December night in 1950, and what it means for us today.

          Music

Dr. Jeff Baker: First, let me introduce myself. I'm Jeff Baker. I'm a pediatrician and historian at Duke. I grew up in Atlanta, came to Duke Medical School back in 1980, and even though I was raised in Martin Luther King's hometown in the aftermath of the Civil Rights Movement, I honestly didn't learn much about African-American history. As a kid. I used to go camping near a place called Stone Mountain where you could see this gigantic carving of Robert E. Lee etched into the side of the rock. I had absolutely no idea that this is where the Ku Klux Klan was reborn in 1915. It was like the history of racism was all around me and looking back, I didn't even see it. Seeing it, really seeing it, has been a long and illuminating journey.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: I'm Damon Tweedy. I wrote the medical memoir Black Man in a White Coat. I'm a professor of psychiatry here at Duke, and before that I was a resident and a medical student, so I've been here a long time. I grew up in Maryland in a working class neighborhood, to parents who lived in this time that we're talking about with Avery. They lived in the world of segregation, segregated schools, the indignities that all that entailed, separate water fountains, all those stories that they told me when I grew up.

But when I got to Duke in the mid 1990s, I knew that history, but somehow I thought we're kind of post- racial and the past is the past. I'm here to become a doctor, and so I was really focused in that way, not really thinking about race so much. And so when I got to here at Duke, it was really eye-opening and disconcerting, whatever words you want to put to it, that the past was really important in ways that were really unsettling for me, these issues of race and segregation and discrimination, the impact on me personally and more importantly, the impact on the patients that I was seeing. And it was all around me, and so I really had to recognize and sort of reckon with that.

Dr. Jeff Baker: Yeah, so you and I have had different stories, but I think one thing we've shared is that we've both given a lot of talks about race and medicine, both here at Duke and around the country. In the spring and summer of 2020, the demand for those talks and conversations took on a new urgency.

          Archival audio, Police Officer, May 25, 2020: What do you want?

          George Floyd: I can't breathe, please your knee on my neck. I can't breathe see here.

          Police Officer: Well, get up, get in the car, man.

          George Floyd: I will--

          Police Officer: Get up and get in the car.

Dr. Jeff Baker: The death of George Floyd, a 46-year-old black man killed on May 25th, 2020 by Minneapolis police led to upheaval and unrest around the country for several weeks and sparked a national soul searching dialogue about race, police violence and broader inequity. Floyd's death, of course, came just a few months into the COVID-19 crisis. Remember that time?

          President Donald Trump, proclamation, March 13, 2020: To unleash the full power of the federal government did this effort. Today, I am officially declaring a national emergency.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: You know, I do, and I don't. Sometimes it feels like it's another lifetime ago, of course, but there are certainly parts of it that I'll never forget.

Dr. Jeff Baker: Yeah, I didn't think about that question--I try not to think about it. I have this dim memory of being--we were all stuck at home, we were on our computers doing Zoom meetings and scrolling on our phones. But I do remember how our screens were drenched with coverage of George Floyd's death.

          Archival audio, Police Officer, summer 2020: Please disperse or you will be arrested. Hey, they're coming through there.

Dr. Jeff Baker: Protests in the streets and these horrible pandemic stories. It was just a time like nothing else I've ever experienced.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: And so George Floyd's death and everything that surrounded it, it really put this spotlight on racial conflict and strife that it was still there, right? Pretty obviously. At the same time, I think the pandemic did that in its own way in the healthcare world. It was pretty clear early on that the pandemic affected people differently, Black versus white, but in particular, but in other ways as well. And the early data showed that Black people were really being hit especially hard, much higher case rates, much higher hospitalizations and much more likely to die from it as well. It was all right there, front and center.

Now, this really shouldn't have come as a huge surprise to us. Those of us who have any sort of connection to the healthcare world have known for decades as long as they've been studying these health outcomes that Black people have done much worse and fared much worse in terms of any kind of health outcome that you can measure, including life expectancy and infant mortality, you name them.

Dr. Jeff Baker: Yeah, I remember that. It was so obvious during the pandemic. I remember how it swept through the Black and brown communities. But I remember later in the year, a second issue came up--when that vaccine finally came out, while Black and brown Americans were hit harder by the epidemic, they were at first less likely to get the vaccine. I remember talking to a lot of my doctor colleagues and we were all trying to figure out why was there so much mistrust.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: I think a lot of people in medicine just had blinders on for a really, really long time. They kind of convinced themselves that these racial issues were actually better than they were. I think back to just being a medical student, we had a little one hour kind of seminar on race and medicine. So that kind of shows you how it probably wasn't seen as that much of a priority if you just spent four years in a medical school and you have a one or two hours to talk about race. So I think people just really kind of thought, well, we can just move on beyond it.

But COVID really in some ways created this perfect storm. You have these two things that are being brought together. You have these clear racial disparities in health outcomes that we can all see because again, as you mentioned, we're all on our computers and we're all in our boxed in so our lives are disrupted. And so we could see that pretty clearly, and this thing that was affecting all of us was impacting some of us much more, and that was clear. And it also brought to light the stories about the vaccines. It's like, well, there's also this issue of mistrust in healthcare, so you really have these two issues coalescing at the same time.

Dr. Jeff Baker: I think in retrospect, it's kind of funny that all my white colleagues were trying to figure out why is there this mistrust? I don't think my Black colleagues wondered as much. For Duke's black faculty that was a really hard time.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: It was for sure.

Dr. Jeff Baker: I remember seeing a letter that Duke's Black faculty had sent to every member of Duke's health system.

          Dr. Erica Taylor, reading letter written by Duke School of Medicine Black faculty, January 2021: We Black faculty across Duke Health greet you as fellow co-investigators, colleagues, clinicians, and companions. Over the last several months, we and other Black people have not only seen family, friends, and community members die at higher rates from COVID-19. We have watched people who look like us gunned down while going for a jog, murdered in their own homes, and mercilessly choked on camera.

          Music

Dr. Jeff Baker: And I also remember how more than any other time that I can think of since I came to Duke 30 years ago, a lot of people at Duke started calling for real change.

          Archival audio, public gathering, summer 2020:

          Group: You must love and support each other.

          Leader: Tell me what communities look like.

          Group: This is what community looks like.

          Leader: Tell me what communities looks like.

         Group: This is what community looks like.

Dr. Jeff Baker: I think it was somehow in the middle of all this that I began to hear a lot more open talk among colleagues that maybe, just maybe, Duke might have some of its own trust issues with the community. And I think it's because I was an historian, a lot of people began coming up to me and asking, there must be some history behind all this.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: And you have all the answers, right?

Dr. Jeff Baker: Oh yeah.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: And so because of my book, I think they wanted my perspective too. And so I feel like we were just in this rotation one month Jeff talks to this group and the next month it's me. And so we're in this sort of pattern that kind of went on for a long time.

Dr. Jeff Baker: That's right. It was a busy time, but I think the vaccine distrust issue did draw attention to something that many people of color had been saying for a very long time.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: As a New York Times columnist Charles Blow wrote in December, 2020: “The unfortunate American fact is that black people in this country have been well-trained over centuries to distrust both the government and the medical establishment on the issue of healthcare.”

Dr. Jeff Baker: Charles Blow—I'll never forget that column. He spent the rest of the column reeling off a whole series of some of the most notorious examples of how Black people have been harmed by the medical establishment over the entire course of American history.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: So sadly, it's a really long list and he didn't even get to all of 'em. So there's J. Marion Sims. He's known as the father of gynecology, basically pioneered surgical techniques on enslaved women without consent obviously, and also without anesthesia. Really ghastly. There's also sterilization programs. So this is the era of the eugenics movement in the early 20th century, and really a lot of Black women were sterilized without their consent. Another sad story for sure. Then there's Henrietta Lacks. I think many of us might be more familiar with that story due to the book and the movie, but the nutshell is that this is a woman, a very poor woman, and comes to Johns Hopkins and has her cells extracted and developed into the cell line that's becomes immensely profitable and helpful to people all over the world. But it feels like in a sense, at its core, at the expense of herself and her family in some ways.

Dr. Jeff Baker: Of course, there's one story that I think we can be pretty sure that just about everyone who's listening to this podcast has heard of, Tuskegee, shorthand for what was originally called "The Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male." It was so famous, or infamous, that the name Tuskegee has actually become a kind of code word for medical racism.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: That's true. Man, I hate that. I first heard about Tuskegee when I was a kid, and so I'd heard about this historically black college, this HBCU, Tuskegee Institute, founded by Booker T. Washington. At the time, he was probably the most prominent Black person in America. Teddy Roosevelt, president Teddy Roosevelt, invited him to dinner at the White House, and that was a really big deal at the time. And so this is the school that he started and he was himself formerly a slave. So it's kind of an amazing sort of trajectory. And so that's what I think of with Tuskegee when I hear that term, at least when I first learned it as a kid. There's also, of course, the famed Tuskegee airmen from World War II. So there are really sort of positive associations with Tuskegee. And so I hate the idea that people can just say Tuskegee and it immediately goes to syphilis and experimentation and racism. It really, really kind of nags at me.

Dr. Jeff Baker: I hate it too. Although the reality is that's how a lot of people refer to it. We really need to remember that the study was run by the United States Public Health Service. Listeners, in case you don't know the details of the study—and I found that a lot of us don’t—here’s the outline of what happened. From the early 1930s into the 1970s, white doctors working for the Public Health Service observed over 500 Black men with advanced syphilis. Most of the men thought they were being treated, but in fact they were just being watched so that doctors could learn the disease’s natural history. Many were lied to, none gave consent, and treatment was withheld even after penicillin became available in the mid 1940s. The study went on for 40 years until it was finally shut down in 1972 after The New York Times published an explosive article about it. It is probably the single most notorious example of racism in the history of American medicine. Its impact is so far reaching that in 1997, president Bill Clinton
apologized to the survivors of the study.

          President Bill Clinton, 1997 Speech: What the United States government did was shameful, and I am sorry.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: That was quite a moment. I actually remember watching the news story about President Clinton apologizing to some of the survivors. It was very moving to see and to witness. Over time now, that study has kind of been reported to be kind of the reason, the reason, why Black people don't trust medicine, and I think there's some truth to it, but I also don't think it's the whole story. In my own clinical experience and over the years working in medicine, I feel like a lot of people's mistrust, this thing we're talking about, was really coming from more personal experiences, a lot closer to home, things that happened to them or to their mom or their dad or their neighbor, cousin. Those are the sorts of stories that really I think are often impacting people's wariness of the healthcare system.

Dr. Jeff Baker: I think that makes sense. I've actually had conversations at community meetings with people and I'll ask, so why don't you trust Duke? And people often will say, Duke does experiments. And I will then ask, so what experiments are you remembering? And they'll say, well, like Tuskegee. There is some power to that word deciding it.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's a clear cut example of racism, medical racism or just racism period, right? It's concrete. The facts are known. There's no disputing what happened. It's in the record. I mean, there were research journals that were publishing the findings, whereas the stories that I'm alluding to are like, this thing happened to my grandmother, but it's not like the record was there. And so in many ways, I think this Tuskegee syphilis experiment, again, I'm even butchering it in terms of my own language, so apologies for that. But I think this whole study really is like a, it's kind of like a code, right, a code word. When we say medical racism, we can use this and everybody knows what we're talking about.

Dr. Jeff Baker: Yeah, I think what I hear you saying is that, I mean, if people do bring up a story about a family member, will it be believed or will it be just be dismissed? At least when you say Tuskegee, it's something everybody knows about.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: Exactly.

Dr. Jeff Baker: And there's so many other stories we could tell, and still others we don't even know about.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: But Jeff, haven't we kind of, I'm sure some people listening are saying, haven't we already heard enough stories of medical racism? Not another story, right? Isn't it time for us to stop talking about all this and actually do something?

Dr. Jeff Baker: Yeah, well, I think I've heard a lot of that both at Duke but also in the community: Acknowledge the past and move on.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: When you do that, it allows you to distance yourselves from everything, to sort of separate yourself from what actually would happen. So I guess maybe here I'm putting on my psychiatrist's hat, but I personally believe that these individual stories allow us to connect to people on a different level. It’s one thing to say that Duke had a segregated ward since some distant time in the past, but it's another thing to hear how that impacted someone in their greatest hour of need. And it's still another thing to really learn that that's a real person, the real story with the real family and all that goes with it.

Dr. Jeff Baker: Yeah, I'm not sure you can really get the story of the harms of segregated wards unless you hear the story of Maltheus Avery. It’s important because it's an individual story. It's even more important because it's a local story. It's our story. We have to own this. We learn about ourselves when we dive into this story.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: So a lot of people, myself included, when you come to Duke, you don't really know much about Durham at all, to be honest with you. You're coming to Duke for the school, the institution, its reputation, how all that can sort of benefit you in some sort of way, but sort of losing sight of the community that's behind. I think that's a pretty familiar story. But you're probably special, Jeff. You're the Mr. History guy, so what’s your take on all that?

Dr. Jeff Baker: Okay, well just because I'm a historian, don't make assumptions. I know a lot about Durham's history now, but the truth was I've been here 30 years and for most of that time, I didn't know much about Durham's history at all. Frankly, when I first got here as a student, it seemed like a working class tobacco town that was decaying. I was a doctor. I didn't think tobacco was a very good thing. I just didn't get into it very much.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: That's like those stereotypes we hear, the Duke students coming from these wealthy areas and descending into this town. I mean, let me be frank. There's a lot of stories about well-to-do white people coming to this town that's largely Black and looking down on it. So, I mean, I'm not here to pick on you. I'm just saying it sort of feels like I'm hearing some of that.

Dr. Jeff Baker: No, I kind of felt like I needed to share this cause there’s some truth to it. I think honestly, that was the attitude of a lot of the students at Duke Medical School I attended with. So when did you get here and what was your first impression of Durham?

Dr. Damon Tweedy: I came quite a bit later. I'm a little bit younger than you.

Dr. Jeff Baker: Just a little bit.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: But not that much actually. And so I came in 1996, and I'm from Maryland, so mostly I was looking for medical schools in Maryland, Virginia, and then northward. And Duke was really the most southern school that I looked at. And I remember when I became more serious about attending Duke, I visited there twice actually. People were like, mmm, why do you want to go there? That's the plantation. And I said, well, where'd that come from? He said, well, and this is a mentor I had. And he said, well, that's tobacco money. And so why would you want to be part of that?

          Archival audio, tobacco advertisement: Timeout for many men of medicine usually means just long enough to enjoy a cigarette. What cigarette do you smoke, doctor?

Dr. Damon Tweedy: And of course, if you think about it, Duke was built by tobacco money and slavery in the United States—tobacco was a big part of that. So it really kind of all hit home in that sort of way. And as I got to Duke and had been here for a while, I learned that people down here would refer to Duke as the plantation as well.

Dr. Jeff Baker: So I think it's fair to say we've both learned a lot more about Durham since we first came to Duke.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: So again, I came in with this one sort of really limited narrow thinking of Duke. So again, I got on your case, but I probably shared, I hate to say it as a Black person, I hate to say that I probably shared some of those same sentiments myself. And so I was really surprised when I learned that there was this thing called Black Wall Street, and that was connected to Durham, Durham's Black Wall Street. And so I knew nothing about this when I first got here and it took many years before I did. But basically in the early 20th century, Durham actually had one of the most admired Black middle classes, not only just in this region, but nationally. In fact, in 1921, the editors of this, there's an influential Black newspaper called The Atlanta Independent, and this is what they wrote.

          Voice Over, Atlanta Independent, 1921:There is more grace, grit, and greenback among the Negroes in Durham and more harmony between the races than in any city in America.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: In 1912, after visiting Durham, W. E. B. Du Bois, the great Black intellectual and activist who'd graduated from Harvard and lived throughout America, called the achievements of Durham's Black population “more striking than that of any similar group in the nation.”

Dr. Jeff Baker: Yeah, from what I know about Du Bois, he was not a guy who was easily taken in. What do you think impressed him so much?

Dr. Damon Tweedy: Yeah, I mean, I think it was Durham really did have a really vibrant Black business community. Again, I just didn't know anything about any of this. And I think it's a loss. If you think about me as a medical student coming into this place, I think it's a real loss for our students to not understand that history. That's a lot of what we are trying to do here. So Durham was the home of a business called the NC Mutual, and it was one of the first great Black-owned businesses in America, and it's believed that in the early 1900s, it was actually the largest such business in the whole country. Again, amazing. It was a building it had on Parrish Street, and this became known as Black Wall Street, with so many black businesses all around, all sorts of things. We're talking about theaters, hotels, there's a jazz scene. And so there was this community, it was called Hayti, and it was kind of referred to sort of like a Harlem of the South. We've heard about the Harlem Renaissance, and that's kind of got more traction in history. But we had had our own version of that right here in Durham, which is again an amazing thing to think about.

Dr. Jeff Baker: Yeah, I know about this story now, but again, I just didn't know much about it at all for many years. And I also didn't know what had happened to the community of Hayti.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: Yeah, it was bulldozed during the 1960s, the Civil Rights Era, and it became the Durham Freeway, which is, you know, we all know about that.

Dr. Jeff Baker: Yeah, the freeway I drove down pretty much every day for many years without knowing any of this story. You talk about erasing history.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: Yeah, I mean, again, I took that same drive too. Didn't know it either. But if you're a Black person who's from that community, in East Durham, and you have relatives and you're descended from folks there, you're certainly much more likely to know that history. And I think that's a really important part of when we're talking about history, who's it remembered by? It's easy for us, I'm this northerner and you’re coming from Atlanta, to not know the history and to just sort of not think about it, but those who are harmed by it, it really sticks with them. And so I think that's really one of the important lessons for us to think about.

Dr. Jeff Baker: Yeah, that's going to be a big theme in this podcast, talking about stories that Duke has forgotten but are still remembered by the Black community. So Haiti is an important story like that, a story of a community that was erased, if you will, by a freeway. But there's another Haiti story that I think people in Durham would want people, especially at Duke Hospital, to know. And that's the story that Durham once had one of the best Black hospitals in the entire country, Lincoln Hospital.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: As a medical student. I rotated through Lincoln Clinic and I worked with some older doctors who talk a little bit about Lincoln Hospital. But I don't think I really appreciated from them how prominent Lincoln Hospital was to the Black community in Durham and beyond.

Dr. Jeff Baker: Yeah, it's actually a really amazing story. Lincoln Hospital was founded in 1901, thanks to Dr. Aaron Moore. Dr. Moore was Durham's first Black physician. He got here from Raleigh in the mid-1880s. He was a member of that Black middle class you've talked about, a really respected Black physician. He was one of the founders of the NC Mutual, very much a mover and shaker, and he launched a campaign to build a hospital for African-Americans. He needed to do that. When he first got here, he didn't have a hospital he could admit his patients to. In fact, he had to put people into the second floor of his own family house.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: You mean the patients actually stayed at his house, like a mini hospital in his
house?

Dr. Jeff Baker: That's exactly right. It was a big house.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: I guess it was.

Dr. Jeff Baker: It was really quite big. It’s gone today, sadly. Actually, it stood on the entrance ramp to the Durham Freeway today. So it's gone. But it was a great big place. But that's not a long-term solution. So he very much knew Durham needed a hospital for Black people. Duke Hospital was not going to open until 1930. So Dr. Moore began approaching the other business leaders in the Black community, and he also approached this guy named Washington Duke.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: That's the Washington Duke that this place is named after?

Dr Jeff Baker: That's right. Wash Duke, the guy who has the big statue on the East Campus, the industrialist and founder of the Duke tobacco empire. Now the Duke family, this might surprise you, had a good working relationship with Durham's Black leaders. I wouldn't say they were close friends, but they did work together for mutual advantage. Moore and his allies had heard that Duke was planning to build a monument in honor of the enslaved people who had protected the southern white woman during the Civil War.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: Okay, hold on. Stop again, stop again,come on. So you mean like a Confederate monument with Black folks in it? That sounds kind of crazy to me.

Dr. Jeff Baker: This is why I'm in history. You can't make this stuff up. But it sounded crazy to Moore as well, okay. So Moore and his allies and in the NC Mutual suggested to Duke that maybe a better way to honor those men would be to build a hospital for their descendants. And Duke was persuaded. He wrote a check. Black businesses wrote checks as well. And that's actually how Durham got itself Lincoln Hospital. It opened its doors in 1901 with 50 beds and a policy of admitting patients without any regard to their ability to pay. This hospital became a tremendous source of pride to the local community. The staff, all Black, were focused on improving the health of Durham's African-American population. They created programs, public health programs, targeting maternal health and infectious diseases. They established health education programs, offered free emergency care to anyone
whether or not they could pay. That's going to be important to our story. And in addition, Lincoln created opportunities for Black doctors and nurses through the nursing residency and surgery programs at a time when there really weren't that many opportunities for Black people in the south in healthcare.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: So I think one important lesson, just the story you're telling about Lincoln, Jeff, is that even to this day, if we are honest, there are a lot of stereotypes that persist when we talk about Black people, whether it's this sense of Black people not being educated or being lazy and lacking ingenuity and these sorts of things. And Lincoln's story really tells something totally the opposite, right? It's completely different from that. It showed how people could really create something from nothing, in the face of the most really terrible obstacles. And so it is a story of how can someone, create something from nothing-- the agency, perseverance, whatever adjective you want to describe-- I think it's a really important story for us to know.

Dr. Jeff Baker: This is a story, a powerful story of Black agency, and it's also a story of racial cooperation. In 1924, when Lincoln Hospital burned down, it was the newly created Duke Endowment that stepped in and provided basically half the funding to rebuild the hospital. The other half was provided by the Black community, and the Duke family would always see itself as having a connection to Lincoln Hospital. That's going to be important for our story too.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: And it was this hospital that Maltheus Avery was brought to in 1950 after his car accident.

Dr. Jeff Baker: That's right. So I think now we're ready to hear the story of Maltheus Avery. I think we have the stage set.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: I'm Damon Tweedy.

Dr. Jeff Baker: And I'm Jeff Baker. Thanks for listening.

UNHEALED was produced by the Trent Center for Bioethics, Humanities & History of Medicine at Duke School of Medicine. Our producer is Beverley Abel. Keith Weston is mix engineer. Our project manager is Nikki Vangsnes. Marjorie Miller provided project assistance. Music by Blue Dot Sessions and Pond Five. Funding has been provided by the Josiah Charles Trent Memorial Foundation, Mary Duke Biddle Foundation, and Duke Institutional History Project. Our website is unhealed.duke.edu.

Dr. Damon Tweedy: Talk to you next time.